The extent of power

[Fiendess]

Swordalchemist trolls on a daily basis, first thing he did when he saw me was troll me, he misbehaves everywhere and I've seen reports of him, hatchu isn't the only mod he bothered, which is why i said : no appeals.

[Swordalchemist]

Swordalchemist trolls on a daily basis, first thing he did when he saw me was troll me, he misbehaves everywhere and I've seen reports of him, hatchu isn't the only mod he bothered, which is why i said : no appeals.

Even a convicted criminal is entitled the same right to a trial as anyone else when they commit an offense, and I am hardly a "convicted" offender. I believe the phrase is "innocent until proven guilty".

No matter the number of complaints you have, they must be verified before you can convict someone. Passing hasty judgements can never be condoned, and it is even worse when proceeding from someone in a position of power. I am saddened by your attitude throughout this situation, especially since you have told me over and over that you "fight for justice". Justice is not something that you can bend to fit your agenda...

Your statements remind me of a conversation that we had a while back regarding trolling.. and the location of trolling. (once again I can produce screenshots if necessary)

[11/17/2011 4:58:47 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: Yeah uhmm
[11/17/2011 4:58:50 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: On skype
[11/17/2011 4:58:53 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: i can do what i want tho.
[11/17/2011 4:58:59 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: I can call you any names i want
[11/17/2011 4:59:01 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: i can insult
[11/17/2011 4:59:03 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: i can abuse anything
[11/17/2011 4:59:22 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: i even troll my employee's on skype.
[11/17/2011 4:59:23 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: cuz on skype
[11/17/2011 4:59:25 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: idc
[11/17/2011 4:59:30 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: u can do what u want here
[11/17/2011 4:59:32 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: even call me a whore.
[11/17/2011 4:59:39 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: i can't ban u for skype issues.
[11/17/2011 4:59:42 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: do 1 thing on VW tho
[11/17/2011 4:59:44 AM] Fiendess Of Fate: and that's it.

It is quite clearly stated here that while even you, yourself troll outside of VW... any trolling inside of the VW game is not permitted. This statement is, to me, clear vindication of any "trolling" or actions outside of the Vortex Wars game. You (the head moderator) stated that trolling, "insulting", and even "abuse" is permitted, as long as it is outside of the game. Unless of course.. you hold yourself to a different standard than the rest of us...

[BelgarionRiva]

Swordalchemist trolls on a daily basis, first thing he did when he saw me was troll me, he misbehaves everywhere and I've seen reports of him, hatchu isn't the only mod he bothered, which is why i said : no appeals.

Fiendess, you've asked me many times over to give you a chance to see how you deal with users. I find your statement very offensive and I do not believe you should be a mod or should hold power over anything until you take control over your emotions and lack of self esteem. How you feel towards players should not be an incentive not to listen to them and not to treat them with the same respect you treat your parents and friends. You are a judge, not a user, not a friendly person, you are supposed to be fair and impartial, instead, you prove to be little less than a troubled child.

5 Simple points throughout the discussion:

1. The topic has overextended in discussions (Too much text, a valid point can be said in a short sentence)
2. Techgump was right - "reality check" was missed (Dude it's just 2 days... deal with it)
3. The discussion sometimes went about law and justice in general, rather than this particular scenario. (Generalization lead to overextension)
4. Personal opinions are [b]not arguments.[/b]
5. Control yourself SwordAlchemist, you messed with Hacku, you got revenge.(was it right or wrong is pointless to discuss in this situation)

I understand that people are impulsive and the internet is a "safe" place to express yourself as you want, but are you really that angry,obsessed in your life? If so I recommend a chill-pill. Next time you feel the urge to be aggressive, get a stress-ball or something.
Lastly, a situation in real life that might have some resemblance to this situation:
Call your boss in many bad names on the street, think you won't get fired/demoted/on the edge at work after that?
Freedom of speech, human rights... Stop it. There's a time and a place for that and the place is definitely not games/chats/forums

Assuming the evidence and reasons by Hacku and Fiendess are credible and true, the Alchemist deserved the temporary ban. That was enough time to realize your own offensive behavior. He clearly showed some maturity and reason in the forum and thus should understand the consequences of continuous disrespect

Your fourth point is very interesting, especially since all arguments against sword were already refuted in his first post, if anyone actually took the time to read it, while all "arguments" against him, were just feelings that it's okay to have a personal vendetta against someone and deal with them however possible. If the person having an argument happens to be a mod, that's awesome! Then they can just ban the opposite person to get revenge. Isn't that what being a mod is all about? Being able to exact fear into the hearts of poor users! This isn't about sword's behaviour. Sword clearly said things that were insulting to Hatchu, that's not up for discussion. Calling Hatchu names is not nice. It does not matter what sword did, because hatchu overstepped his jurisdiction. I think you are missing the point.

@ joriom: For the sake of keeping this post shorter, I will not quote your last post. Assuming I understand what you are trying to say, I am simply appalled that a human could possibly have such a lack of understanding of basic world principles. There's just nothing to say against your post because it does not bring any valid points. Any attempt to break them would prove invalid since you clearly do not work on the same logic as the rest of us.

All the arguments brought up by anyone against sword have already been broken in sword's first post.

To Fiendess, Hatchu, and all users who seem to oppose this for no reason other than "he got what was coming to him: This is not a war between users and mods, this is not a place to judge people. This is the forums of a video game, intended to have a good time about a video game. The implementation of moderators has been a terrible mistake and needs to be corrected. The mods(most of them) are using their powers for their own benefits and are not bringing any addition to the vortex wars community. If anything, the vortex community was better off before the implementation of mods. I'm sick of trying to convey arguments to individuals that are too busy trying to break my arguments apart, instead of listening to them. Anytime I am online, I feel threatened and I feel like the moderators are trying to feed my anger in order to make me say just a little something that will tip me over the line and ban me. The vortex wars moderation team has proven time and again to be made out individuals with a never-ending lust for power.

[techgump]

BelgarionRiva, I think before you ask another to "take control of their emotions", that you ask the same of yourself.

Insulting other members around logic and personality is not necessary to make any valid points you may have. Please consider in the future toning down your insults. Insults are generally a reflection of your lack of logic and control than that of others.

Isn't that what being a mod is all about? Being able to exact fear into the hearts of poor users!

Obviously, this is not the intent at all. That said, Moderators were intended to address and handle extreme cases of user abuse, which was occurring within the game. Moderation is nothing new, and is applied in almost every forum today for good reason, to which you validate the need for in your above post.

In regards to this topic, I will be likely be locking it within the next day. Lopdo has surely got the jist of the major forum contributors' feelings around this specific topic.

[BetaGen]

Lets keep it simple: "hatchu overstepped his jurisdiction" or not?

Hatchu's version:
The warning and offenses occurred inside Vortex Wars.
Pros: Lopdo and Fiendess backup Hatchu to some extent
Cons: No evidence to backup the in-game offenses

SwordAlchemist's version:
The warning and offenses occurred outside Vortex Wars (Kongregate chat).
Pros: "Pics or it did not happen scenario"
Cons: Chat transcripts suggest unacceptable behavior
It looks like a dead end at that specific part of the topic

The evidence suggests SwordAlchemist's language towards Hatchu outside VW was unacceptable. Also, the Creator, Senior Moderator are protecting a moderator. Now it's just Hatchus words against SwordAlchemists. 1 of them is lying, or avoiding the truth and looking for a loophole in the system. Until that is know, nothing can be resolved in their relations. The only success in the discussion was to bring Lopdo to an idea that moderators are worth reconsidering, enough said, no?

[BelgarionRiva]

BelgarionRiva, I think before you ask another to "take control of their emotions", that you ask the same of yourself.

Insulting other members around logic and personality is not necessary to make any valid points you may have. Please consider in the future toning down your insults. Insults are generally a reflection of your lack of logic and control than that of others.

Isn't that what being a mod is all about? Being able to exact fear into the hearts of poor users!

Obviously, this is not the intent at all. That said, Moderators were intended to address and handle extreme cases of user abuse, which was occurring within the game. Moderation is nothing new, and is applied in almost every forum today for good reason, to which you validate the need for in your above post.

In regards to this topic, I will be likely be locking it within the next day. Lopdo has surely got the jist of the major forum contributors' feelings around this specific topic.

What you quoted from me was sarcasm... I should put a sarcasm picture next time. Moderation is applied to every forum today for a good reason, I have to agree with you. However, I have to disagree against most of this moderation team for obvious reasons.

Lets keep it simple: "hatchu overstepped his jurisdiction" or not?

Hatchu's version:
The warning and offenses occurred inside Vortex Wars.
Pros: Lopdo and Fiendess backup Hatchu to some extent
Cons: No evidence to backup the in-game offenses

SwordAlchemist's version:
The warning and offenses occurred outside Vortex Wars (Kongregate chat).
Pros: "Pics or it did not happen scenario"
Cons: Chat transcripts suggest unacceptable behavior
It looks like a dead end at that specific part of the topic

The evidence suggests SwordAlchemist's language towards Hatchu outside VW was unacceptable. Also, the Creator, Senior Moderator are protecting a moderator. Now it's just Hatchus words against SwordAlchemists. 1 of them is lying, or avoiding the truth and looking for a loophole in the system. Until that is know, nothing can be resolved in their relations. The only success in the discussion was to bring Lopdo to an idea that moderators are worth reconsidering, enough said, no?

No hatchu did not say offenses occured inside Vortex Wars game. He stated that they have occured inside the vortex wars game in the past. Basically, hatchu's argument is that since sword alchemist was probably insulting a few weeks/months ago, he is banning him now because he is pissed, because sword has insulted him in kongregate chat. For this specific issue, sword has not written anything game. Only in vw chat. No one is lying, you just misunderstood the facts.

[techgump]

I interpret that Hatchu stated this happened in game (not "in the past")... and again I bring up the point that the ban was in place before any of the documented discussions occurred. Hence, logic tells me that the ban was for in game reasons, not that of the later documented discussions... otherwise how is this possible (a ban in place for a conversation that had not yet taken place). Here is Hatchu's quote provided by Sword:

Hatchu wrote:

You are right, there is no screenshot of in game stuff but this shows how you conduct yourself. It was immediately after game too.
I said, "keep it coming" after I told you that I was now recording the conversation... thus adding to the evidence against you.
The abuse in game was awful and you know that it was inappropriate. I have conducted myself properly and with decorum. Unfortunately, you did not.

I think BetaGen nailed it. Any further speculation is not helping solve anything, as they become opinionated and non-factual, or user's word against user's word.

[Lopdo]

I would like to point out that I am not taking sides in this case. And I am certainly not defending Hatchu or Fiendess.

[Joriom]

I would like to point out that I am not taking sides in this case. And I am certainly not defending Hatchu or Fiendess.

"And at day eight Lord has spoken to Adam: I don't care about my angels that I've sent to protect you. Screw them."

[Lopdo]

I didn't say I don't care, I don't have enough information (noone does) to make decision. I think that both sides did something wrong and I am not going pick one side that erred more, that's all