This is regarding 484Insomnia484, Ex. Mod.

[Awesome400]

Im with insomnia. Almost the exact same thing happened to me when I was fired. I wasnt given any insight on what I was doing wrong until AFTER I was de-moded. I wasnt given a warning at all. Until the point when I was fired I didnt think I was doing anything wrong until I was told ( again AFTER I was de-moded) that you are not supposed to speak while spectating a game. Im not saying that im mad at lopdo or at the game (although I should) Im just saying that the whole mod hiring system and mod firing system needs to be fixed very soon. Or else vortexwars is going to become a lot a harder game to play with mods being entirely to soft on certain players

[CrystalLuna]

I agree totally and completely with Hatchu. This all is something that needs to be dealt with (especially the clan problme... *IF* this is the case), or the game might start going downhill. People can't help but want to team up with others privately if it means securing their wins time after time. This is like game abuse. This disadvantages solo players and it wont be long before they and many others will leave game, to let it be run by the ... excuse my bluntness on this.... but the bullies of the game... those who think they can scare, intimidate, control, or defeat others continuously to remove them (their competition) from the game so they can gain status and dominance or leaderboard level, etc. People should not be allowed to take advantage of others if they are deliberately doing so on purpose to exploit others for their own gain. This should be stopped. Okay I'm only going on what Hatchu said on this, and if this is shown to be false, then I stand corrected. But if what he said is true, then this, and other issues of people getting away with inappropriate behavior, could detract from the game enough to make it no longer fun, but instead competitive, war-like, and would scare off those not comfortable or not disposed to compete. The game would start to go down-hill.

How does this relate to 484? Well, moderators see a lot of stuff that goes on in game, and assuming they will use their powers as mod responsibly, they can take action to prevent inappropriate behaviors in game ... provided warnings are given to the offenders. But I do not know what evidence was shown to support the demodding decision, but it seems that little was indeed shown, and evidence for a decision should be a given. I don't know 484 that well, but I've never seen him do anything that would've put his ability or competence as moderator in doubt. As far as I know, he is a good moderator and tries his best to uphold the rules as he sees appropriate. The situation leading up to his decision to ban should be re-examined in light of what REALLY happened in the game.

One other thing I thought of. Players should never talk back to a moderator but show respect. Perhaps the case was where a player talked back to 484 and was banned for being disrespectful. Of course the banned player will come complaining and crying about being banned, never showing how they were being disrespectful (maybe they aren't aware that being discourteous against other players and people is in violation), but will try to focus on what may have had absolutely no bearing on the original decision, since the banned player is trying to manipulate the higher authority (perhaps even unconsciously) into allowing them (and therefore their bad behavior) back on game without penalty. This is a grave error as the crime should be shown in full, even the part that the offending player did. But I don't know the details. And in my opinion, a mod should never be shown disrespect, but if there is an issue, talk it out with them first, or take it to someone else if that doesn't work. Those of you who let your tempers flare first and say stuff without thinking, please be more careful first and realize the need to be polite always. Continued and deliberate and unrepentant rudeness and sarcasm to a mod, if not curbed after being warned like 3 or more times, I would agree is bannable. It also should not be tolerated to anyone else on a consistent basis. But then I don't know the whole situation.

Ok, I've had my say twice now lol. Any other takers?

[hatchu]

I agree with nearly everything you say CrystalLuna. Very balanced.
Lopdo does do an excellent job and has responded extremely quickly to anything minor I have to pose. Hmmmm, suspiciously quickly (are you standing behind me?). Are you magic Lopdo? Anywho, I have no complaints at all. Only praise for Lopdo. (sucking up has stopped now, lol)
However, it was Fiendess who was appointed to take charge and deal with situations like this. Leaving Lopdo to continue to develop the game itself.
Where is she?
I feel we are lacking someone to take charge and make decisions that are made with shrewd forethought and reason.
So we need her back on a regular basis.... or choose someone else. We need a definitive voice. One who can speak eloquently, distinctly and from experience.
We need someone who is around! Maybe even have a few deputies too.
This would certainly make a start to a solution.

[CrystalLuna]

On "I feel that this entire matter is up to Lopdo's discretion... and since no facts have been posted here, this entire topic is simply being speculated upon. Until facts are presented, and Lopdo's take is also shown...this thread is only a breeding ground for emotion and anger.", submitted from Swordalchemist.

simply put.... I agree... no facts have been posted, so we don't know what really happened until lopdo tells us, or a transcript of the incident is made available. So no sense debating about what is and what is not when we don't know the facts, and we are only hearing 484's side of it only now.

But in general, I do agree also that moderators should at least. 1.) be given a list of the DO's and DONT's of moderatorship so they know what is acceptable or expected, and what is not, and 2.) If they violate a rule, told as such and told it wont be then tolerated or they will lose moderator. Done before they are demodded. How can people correct their action if they don't even know what they did is wrong? To be told and then to correct it is is one thing (thus the importance of warnings given in game for offenders). But it's another to be penalized without being told that anything is even wrong. Lopdo can do whatever he feels like cuz it's his game, but I do feel that warnings should be given at least once for a mod too. Or if that is not feasible, at least give mods a private (or public, in a forum Sticky section seeable by moderators only maybe) list of what is permissible and what is not.

Until we know what really happened though, all is mere speculation and we can't help but side with 484 until we know the WHOLE story.

[Awesome400]

I volunteer for deputy!!

[Awesome400]

On "I feel that this entire matter is up to Lopdo's discretion... and since no facts have been posted here, this entire topic is simply being speculated upon. Until facts are presented, and Lopdo's take is also shown...this thread is only a breeding ground for emotion and anger.", submitted from Swordalchemist.

simply put.... I agree... no facts have been posted, so we don't know what really happened until lopdo tells us, or a transcript of the incident is made available. So no sense debating about what is and what is not when we don't know the facts, and we are only hearing 484's side of it only now.

But in general, I do agree also that moderators should at least. 1.) be given a list of the DO's and DONT's of moderatorship so they know what is acceptable or expected, and what is not, and 2.) If they violate a rule, told as such and told it wont be then tolerated or they will lose moderator. Done before they are demodded. How can people correct their action if they don't even know what they did is wrong? To be told and then to correct it is is one thing (thus the importance of warnings given in game for offenders). But it's another to be penalized without being told that anything is even wrong. Lopdo can do whatever he feels like cuz it's his game, but I do feel that warnings should be given at least once for a mod too. Or if that is not feasible, at least give mods a private (or public, in a forum Sticky section seeable by moderators only maybe) list of what is permissible and what is not.

Until we know what really happened though, all is mere speculation and we can't help but side with 484 until we know the WHOLE story.

I agree completely with what you said. If these kind of rules had been enforced sooner me and possibly 484Insomnia484 would not have lost our positions as moderators. I think that rules similar to these need to be enforced to all mods as soon as possible.

[Swordalchemist]

Fiendess resigned I believe... she had some real life issues come up or something like that.

[Awesome400]

Fiendess resigned I believe... she had some real life issues come up or something like that.

When did she resign? Nobody has said this.

[Lopdo]

Wow, why every time mod problem arises, everybody starts posting incredibly long posts? and two pages of them?! I didn't read everything but I thing I pretty much know what is in them. To clarify few things:

Mods are judged by different set of rules than players, they have power so they must be treated more strictly. I tried to be very strict about mods but I failed immediately, I just don't have it me. I let lot of things pass hoping that they (mods) would change and get better in what they are doing. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I do not require proof about issues regarding mods but I do not demote when first problem arises. I heard quite a lot of complaints about how insomnia (mis)uses his powers, this was only the last drop.

regarding that situation mentioned in first post, you have no right to enforce rules that are outside of the programmed VW rules. what I mean is, you can act when someone hacks, uses two accounts etc, but you can't do anything when someone allies if game name says no allies, you can't even warn them. All you can do is complain as a player. You can't do anything as a mod.

[BetaGen]

To begin, I agree with Lopdo about the super long posts. I think except for the 1st one, other's could've been more condensed. Anyway, I still don't know what clearly happened, but I guess it all came down to the "alliance" bit. From what Lopdo said, Insomnia couldn't have warned the player for the alliance as a mod, but the situation probably is he did not kick or ban the player for that, but rather for the misbehavior after disagreeing about the alliance.

I also agree on the lack of notice, probably not the best way to demote someone. I don't know the other reports of Insomnia, but I generally always choose his games when available. I have played in at least 50 of his games and in 3 to 5 of them, he handled the "outragers" maturely and without any action, but rather subtle warnings coming out of the context of communication, instead of the "Do that one more time and you are banned" (I've seen a mod act like this a long time ago before I was a casual player)

To be clear, I haven't talked with Insomnia except the casual Good luck, have fun and general game commentary.