Vortex Wars Council

[BeatlesFan]

The Vortex Warriors Clan (VWC) has 4 Active members and is applying for membership in the Vortex Wars Council.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4991

Upon acceptance - The clan designates BeatlesFan as the primary and >(FM)< as the alternate.

Edit: I just read the new (to me) Council rule requiring one week as an Active Clan. I rescind my request and will reapply in one week.

Thank you.

[royalblue]

I feel it's becoming difficult to make decisions, so even though I have no part in it, I figured I'd bring something up that could be used to improve. In basic, I'm channeling my inner Fang.

The main problem is that issues are difficult to resolve because it takes forever to vote and get a majority. This is because you have so many votes now from all the different clans being accepted. Several of these are either new or small. What I think should happen is that the votes should be weighted, perhaps so that one clan can send more representatives because of a larger stake in the community. How the number of representatives is chosen is variable, but I would suggest it being based off one of the following: active member count, contribution to community, or power within the community. To explain the possibilities named:

Warrior's Creed would have more reps than 4 Riders. Reason: Member Count
WolfPack would have more reps than Order of Secrets. Reason: Contribution to Community
Rangers would have more reps than Mantids. Reason: Power and Respect in the Community

Reasoning: Small clans, like 4 Riders, and new clans, like Thirsty Warfare, have the same voting power as older, bigger clans like the Warriors and Wolves. The OOS should have been knocked off a long time ago, they're a mystery clan of inactive players, old Warriors, and arrogant brats. The Soldiers are, in essence, Ryankill and Lucky. I'm not proposing that we scale it too far, but things like that should be considered so that the community is more accurately represented.

[But even with what I said, the Council is really doing great! High five!]

[Vortex_Master]

I feel it's becoming difficult to make decisions, so even though I have no part in it, I figured I'd bring something up that could be used to improve. In basic, I'm channeling my inner Fang.

The main problem is that issues are difficult to resolve because it takes forever to vote and get a majority. This is because you have so many votes now from all the different clans being accepted. Several of these are either new or small. What I think should happen is that the votes should be weighted, perhaps so that one clan can send more representatives because of a larger stake in the community. How the number of representatives is chosen is variable, but I would suggest it being based off one of the following: active member count, contribution to community, or power within the community. To explain the possibilities named:

Warrior's Creed would have more reps than 4 Riders. Reason: Member Count
WolfPack would have more reps than Order of Secrets. Reason: Contribution to Community
Rangers would have more reps than Mantids. Reason: Power and Respect in the Community

Reasoning: Small clans, like 4 Riders, and new clans, like Thirsty Warfare, have the same voting power as older, bigger clans like the Warriors and Wolves. The OOS should have been knocked off a long time ago, they're a mystery clan of inactive players, old Warriors, and arrogant brats. The Soldiers are, in essence, Ryankill and Lucky. I'm not proposing that we scale it too far, but things like that should be considered so that the community is more accurately represented.

[But even with what I said, the Council is really doing great! High five!]

My first connection is to the US government. They have two sections of Congress, the house and the Senate. We are more like the Senate, with everyone getting equal representation, however, you propose we be more like the House of Representatives which gets their number of reps from population.

I think this would make it quicker and more efficient, while giving new and/or small clans reason to recruit. It would also force clans to keep track of currently active members. Howeve, that brings up a big multi-clanning issue. Some clans have multi-clanning members that slightly skew number of members, though that is not much of a problem except with clans that are overly multi-clan populated, such as VWC (that will be signing up for membership soon.)

There also runs the problem of non-active forum members. If a clan is majorly in-game, it would be harder to have more reps.

There are pluses to a system like this, but it also has its pitfalls.

[Guest77]

It also proposes problems for clans that choose to remain small.

[chris1726354]

Here's a bit of a conversation Wolf and I had regarding the application of VWC into the council. The conversation starts with me.


Our vote should be yes.
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My first thought was no, though I'm more than willing to concede to you on this one if you can give me your reasoning. Either that or we appeal to Fang.
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Reason:
Why not?


What's your reason?
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Really, and nothing against you at all, but I feel like this is going to be a repeat of the first Knights. They were over 75% other clan, like 40% Wolf for that matter, and then declared war on everyone. It got complicated and they kicked everyone and started over. Even if that doesn't happen, it's set up like a second Council already, and will be once it gets to where it seems to be going.

On the other hand, my previous statement does still stand.

And I'm more than happy with you having joined or any other Wolf joining (though for now, I feel I'm too busy in real life to be involved in a second clan to join myself, if I were ever to be invited).
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Alright, so here's another reason.

The leaders of the clan are fm and bf. Both these people have been around for a while and know the forum. They're also both sensible enough to make good decisions, especially bf. Therefore, I think they deserve a vote.
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Counterargument to that logic: Fang and Chess also have an excellent reputation and rank, in their clans and out, but neither has a vote.

That as well, Royalblue and... ... You know, he's the only major guy without a clan now. He's still worth listening to, but shouldn't be included on the Council either.

EDIT: Techgump and Lopdo. Very much worth listening to, completely clanless.
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The mods are individuals. If all the mods got to vote, they would take up a huge chunk of the voting percentage. VWC will have members at its back, who all will be part of the forum already and will know what is happening, and will be from various clans. Bunching up everyone in one clan might even get some intra-clan discussion going, similar to this conversation

[Autumnwolf17]

Just to clarify, BF and FM are among the best leaders I can think of, the problem I have/had is only with the members being mostly multiclan.

On what royalblue proposed, I would support a system like that if we came up with one that made sense, although I have no idea how we'd pass it through voting based on what it is. I don't think that any one of those alone, at least not the way he defined it, is enough for it to be completely fair because of clans like the Riders, who are respected and powerful but purposefully restrict member count. but I do think we should at least try to come up with a way to balance the votes a bit among the clans.

[Ratburntro44]

As I understood it, the Council was essentially first created to resolve disputes between clans (more of a court than a legislature). I don't think it would be a good thing to allow bigger or better clans an advantage in determination of a resolution.

[>(FM)<]

Sorry, I'm thinking, and I'm not quite sure on this, but we are working to get members without clans, but as me and Bf have no connection to the game right now, we can't get any members that are off the forum.

All this fm is a great leader thing is very flattering, but truth is I'm terrible at leading.
Example one: Me cracking under pressure as leader of AoA.
I for one am against any kind of major changes, it's just my nature, I like to keep things the same, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Autumnwolf17]

As I understood it, the Council was essentially first created to resolve disputes between clans (more of a court than a legislature). I don't think it would be a good thing to allow bigger or better clans an advantage in determination of a resolution.

Another possibility is that we could split it into two jobs. The weighted vote count would be for determining clan rulings and helping to keep things organized, and when it came to resolving disputes between only two parties, we could be more of an open forum, because in that case we'd want to work towards a resolution rather than a popularity vote.

[Fangfallen]

Well, I'd love a balanced system but it'd be quite.. difficult to get all of the clans to agree on anything in order for us to implement it.

However, I am not opposed to starting discussion on a better system.