First player advantage

[Logrosmoo]

How exactly does this work?

It seems to be that ppl later in the order get an extra unit...

If this is right then this is game breaking IMO - how is it fixing the first player advantage by giving other players an even *bigger* advantage?

What's to stop me plomping down next to the first player with my extra unit and essentially hamstringing them from the start?

I've only played a couple of games so far so might be way off on this - so feel free to correct me if it's working in a different way

Log(srogers)

[Lopdo]

you are right, I will remove it probably

[Logrosmoo]

I hope you do Lop.

I'm gonna take a break from the game for a bit in the hope this gets fixed.

The rest of the recent udpates have been awesome though man - thanks for the hard work!

Log(srogers)

[Lopdo]

done...

[techgump]

I don't see how this is the case.

If you plop down next to me with a 3, and I have a 2, but I go first... Then I can move to an empty space and get 3 at turns end. Hence I have 2 spaces with a 3 and 1 in each respectively. You have one space with one 3. I still have the advantage having gone first. At least this way, you have a fair opportunity to attack my 3, where as before, you did not, because you would have had a 2 against my three. Plus as it stands, having gone first, I got to pick the best location. So I do not see how this is any bigger advantage... but it surely helps to level the playing field a bit.

[Pepper]

I just wanted to bring this up again, I'm a new player but I'm assuming it used to be that the second half of the play board got an extra reserve (so they started with a 3 island instead of a 2 island).
I just don't know why you took this away from the game, Lopdo, please explain!


Here's a breakdown of the difference between EP (ms Early Player) and LP (ms late player) currently, assuming they expand well.

Turn 1:
EP lays down a 2, LP lays down a 2

Turn 2:
(EP:2 LP:2)
EP's turn: LP currently has equal dice to me!
(EP:4 LP:2)
LP's turn: Oh no, EP has 2 more dice than me! I can only move defensively.

Turn 3:
(EP:4 LP:4)
EP's turn: LP currently has equal dice to me!
(EP:8 LP:4)
LP's turn: Oh no, EP has 4 more dice than me!

Turn 4:
(EP:8 LP:8)
EP's turn: LP currently has equal dice to me!
(EP:16 LP:8)
LP's turn: Deary me, EP has 8 more dice than me!

With 1 extra dice to start with LP-
Turn 1:
EP lays down a 2, LP lays down a 3

Turn 2:
(EP:2 LP:3)
EP's turn: LP has 1 more dice than me! Boo!
(EP:4 LP:3)
LP's turn: EP has 1 more dice than me! Boo!

Turn 3:
(EP:4 LP:6)
EP's turn: LP has 2 more dice than me! Boo!
(EP:8 LP:6)
LP's turn: EP has 2 more dice than me! Boo!

Turn 4:
(EP:8 LP:12)
EP's turn: LP has 4 more dice than me! Wahh!
(EP:16 LP:12)
LP's turn: EP has 4 more dice than me! Wahh!

etc.
Starting late players with a 3 makes a WONDERFUL symmetry, whereby everyone finds they're outnumbered at the start of their turn but can turn that around at the end of their turn.
Starting late players with 2 means that only late players get the disadvantage, early players should never be outnumbered.
This means they're in a much better position to control the board and attack, since they'll know they'll outnumber late players.


This does mean that late players have equal opportunity to control the board as early players.
They might choose to corral early players by starting next to them on the board. I don't think this is any worse than the fact that currently early starters can corral late starters by building in their direction and outnumbering them.
It means that early players will have to stop starting in corners (Where they can be cornered in), and choose places where they'll be able to expand easily in several directions. Then if somebody starts next to them, they can take turns expanding away from each other and putting pressure/defense on the border. This is only a DIFFERENT tactic, it might take people time to adapt but I don't see how it's a bad thing.


Counterpoints with examples, please!

[rednaz23]

It appears this post and my post in feature requests are now linked (or should be): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=929

Thoughts on this?

Phil (rednaz23)

[weird]

The problem with the LP Advantage is that it only works out at an one on one game. With more players this wont be eligable.

I would suggest some changes based on the 2 game modes available:

- Conquer:
1 option would be to have a 1 space blocked around every direction from each starting position. that makes up some space and each player has a change to react at aggressive start players.
Another option would be to reverse the order in which the starting positions are being chosen. That way the first player won't have the chance to choose the best starting area and attack at first.
Having these mechanics in, it would be a bit more fair, although its still the way that the last players have to react on the first players actions and are probably in a defensive state.

- fullmap:
on a full map with 8 players its often the case that the last player will be dead in the first round without even making some action.
I would suggest starting these games with all regions set to 1 unit and the first round being a unit placement round (maybe also with fixed number of units for each player). that way each player can choose were to focus his units on and maybe has a fair chance to win the game.

[Bounty42]

- fullmap:
on a full map with 8 players its often the case that the last player will be dead in the first round without even making some action.

NO it's not. In fact, for about 20 full map games, I've NEVER seen this occur. Now, I do prefer XL and XXL maps, and it could be more common on small, but for every game I've played there are at least 2 or three regions left when brown goes. About half the time there's a double, or triple, still around for orange, teal, or brown when there turn comes up.

the counter balance on a full map is that you can't re-enforce after a major push because you only get men for the connected area, and unless you get really lucky you can't connect a majority of your area. I've found the worst place to be on full map is green or purple; you're far enough down that you're natural grouping points are taken, but high enough up that the bottom colors still have their strongest regions left. And since everyone discounts the lower colors, red and blue are more likely to preference against them for defense.