Best Mode for Vortex Wars

[techgump]

I am curious as to what people's thoughts are in regards to the best way to play VortexWars and WHY.

• Conquor vs Full Map
• Manual, Borders, or Random Placement
• Attrition, Hardcore, or 1v1q
• # of Players
• Level of Allowed Players
• Upgrades Enabled Or Disabled (if enabled, are bonus races allowed)
• Map Size

I have expressed this before on another thread, but figured it's own thread is appropriate. My personal opinion is:
Full map, Random, Hardcore, 7-8 players, Min level 10-15, Upgrades Enabled without Bonus Race Usage, on XL to XXL Maps

Why? Most of my choices are due to evening out the starting position advantage (which give two distinct advantages in conquer mode with manual or border placement), and to apply fairness to all playing, while being one of the most challenging modes.

• Full Map: because this means the first person(s) to go do not also get to pick the best spot(s) on the map (advantage #1 in Conquor w/ Manual)
• Random unit placement: because it limits the first person(s) to go from piling up on borders (which manual and borders caters to) hence leveraging again the start position advantage more (advantage #2 in Conquor w/ Manual).
• Hardcore: well, I don't have a specific reason other than it can cause first position players to play a bit more reserved (which can be key to winning), hence it may make it slightly more difficult to gain and maintain control. Overall I don't mind attrition with Full Map, it is just not my first choice.
• 7-8 players: because it makes it more challenging for a win, and this mode often leads to some very exciting action. The more the players, the better you need to be to win, as your odds of winning decrease per added player. Plus, you get to meet more players .
• Level 10-15: this is purely for the challenge and a more fulfilling emotion upon win . Plus, I have the capacity upgrades, and playing higher level players typically means they will too, again, keeping the fairness as even as possible. I would put it higher than 10-15, but I find that there are just not enough of those players above it to fill a game easily. However, when it happens, it is very much worth the wait!
• Upgrades Enabled: for some time I played upgrades disabled (or asked users to not use bonus races before the upgrades option). This is once again, to keep players on a level playing field, as before shards came out, most users did not have bonus races... tilting advantages towards the users that did. Now, as most have them, I am coming around. Likewise, without the upgrades enabled... being able to conquor an XXL map, which is my favorite, is pretty much impossible with only 20 units capacity. So if you are going to play XXL maps, you should have both capacity upgrades... you need it to take the win. Again, since I play higher ranked members, most will have this, keeping things even.
• Map Size: I like the big maps for a few reasons. 1, it helps to spread out initial full map placement of players men/territories. 2, I like a longer game. 3. Larger maps allow everyone a chance to find at least one pocket where they can build their initial "home" base (ie: you have more options to chose where to start your initial spread, and this choice is usually crucial to your long term game success). Surely the time spend to get the XP is not worth it. So if you goal is XP or win ratio... larger maps with many players on an even playing field is not it.

So there you have it. Many will say Full Map is weighted to the first player even more... and I myself use to also think this, before I played it enough to understand how different the style of play/strategy needs to be. Now that I understand, I have found FullMap with Random to be undoubtedly more fair for any start position, hence making wins rely much more on strategy than start position. FYI, I actually prefer going LATER in line, as first users may spread themselves too thin in a property grab, and make my strong territories able to roll over these users pieces (this is where HC comes into play), or cut them in 1/2, easier. And not to say you cannot get screwed from the start regardless of your skill. It does happen, but it is pretty rare and usually has nothing to do with start position, and more to do with just a bad starting placement of ALL territories, whereby you are left with nothing to join or build upon. For me, maybe 1 out of 8 games this is the case. As for luck, some will claim more luck is involved, but I do contend this also to not be the case... Luck is luck, and will spread itself out over time across all users (random placement of territories and men). Likewise, luck exists in all modes. This game setting combination just eliminates the largest of luck factors... start position. I will also state I get many compliments from more senior users who have played this mode enough and understand it well, stating my games are the best. If you have some rank... I welcome you in to give it a consistent try... I am confident over time, you will agree (or at least in part agree) with my reasoning here.

So, what about you?

[Ratburntro44]

Same as you, but upgrades disabled. I don't like upgrades because some people ragequit when people use upgrades (and some people ragequit at me for using a bonus race when upgrades are disabled...)

[Darkas]

My opinion.
I don't care if I didn't play 2 thousands game of each possible combinations, I believe that 3-5 is enough to have a quite good idea.

By "luck" I mean general randomness.

Conquer: gives more the feeling of building something, turn order does matter a lot.
Full map: gives more XP/shard, turn order matter less but random positioning is really important.

Manual: the easiest but still interesting
Borders: the more strategic, can sometimes be random
Random: quite random, as a very big flaw which is "stack 8 on every territory before anything or lose, and then very slow game"

Attrition: the most balanced, some luck
Hardcore: tend to heavily favor luck
1v1q: favor defense strongly, the less random

# of Players: the more the better :P

Level of Allowed Players: level 5+ to have the more chance of victory, because less troll. All level allowed however in my games, because I've been a guest once upon a time.

Upgrades Enabled Or Disabled: usually enabled because it gives another aspect to the game

Map Size: the bigger the better

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I mainly play 8players/XXL/Conquer/Border/Attrition/Enabled.

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Tip of the day: The quite common HC/Random/FullMap players use the big advantage of the weird strategy you have to use playing this mod to farm innocent people.
This is a deliberate provocation... MOUAHAHAHAHAHAH.

[techgump]

Thanks for sharing Ratburntro44 and Darkas.

Ratburntro44 wrote:

I don't like upgrades because some people ragequit when people use upgrades

I can understand this. It is a fair point, and is often why I still play with upgrades disabled, but this means I cannot play an XXL map, as it will inevitably lead to at least two, or more likely 3 way draw.

Darkas wrote:

The quite common HC/Random/FullMap players use the big advantage of the weird strategy you have to use playing this mod to farm innocent people.

I think you will find... over the posters that are here and with senior players in the game (if you ask them), that I do not play nor enjoy playing... "innocent" people. I most often play the same group of people that are known to know how to play this mode (partly due to my game level minimum). You're making a claim to my strategy without any fact; hardly worth considering. No different could be said about the other modes... you must understand them to play well. I would contend, if you are to make direct attacks of me farming, that your use of any level of play is far more catered to innocent farming. There are plenty of games where guests are allowed, it surely does not need to be yours.

Darkas wrote:

Full map: gives more XP/shard.

Is this true? I thought XP was awarded by conquered territory, as well as number of players. Starting with conquor then, IMO, would seem easier to farm XP, as you have blank spots to easily take in the beginning, without any fight, unlike fullmap, where beyond initial placements, you earn every one with a fight. Perhaps it evens itself out with starting with some vs blank spots... but I do believe hardly weighted one way or another.

Darkas worte:

turn order matter less but random positioning is really important

Right, it is important. But again, it is random for all, not just a few. Over time, this does play out evenly.

[Darkas]

Blank spots doesn't give any xp/shard.

In full map, you have far more fights and territory exchange. Moreover, even if you finish 3rd or 4th, you'll still win a lot of because you'd have conquered far more than in actual conquer mod. Oh, and conquer mod take something like 2x more time on average, I'd say.

For one of your point, I'll let you guess which, highlight the last line of my previous post.

[techgump]

For one of your point, I'll let you guess which, highlight the last line of my previous post.

I do not understand your statement. No need to beat around the bush.

In full map, you have far more fights and territory exchange

In the end, if you are going to win, you need to win all territories. So, different modes, but the territory amount is the same. I don't see any difference here in the end. Base on my experience, I get about the same amount of XP either way.

Oh, and conquer mod take something like 2x more time on average, I'd say.

I completely disagree here, and I think others will agree with me. Full Map, Random, HC takes the longest, assuming experienced players, as this becomes a war of 8s... It can last of hours and become a test of wills. Perhaps Lopdo could provide us with game mode time stats to verify one way or the other.

[Darkas]

It's the "random" which make it longer. Try another one =)
Random conquer is the longest mod from far :P

Highlight, aka selection with your mouse.

In the end, if you are going to win, you need to win all territories. So, different modes, but the territory amount is the same. I don't see any difference here in the end. Base on my experience, I get about the same amount of XP either way.

Conquering a territory multiple times gives you multiple times the xp/shard. Again, blank doesn't give any, so your point is still not valid. And full map with same troop distribution take far less time.

[techgump]

Oh, LOL! For those who missed it.

Darkas wrote:

This is a deliberate provocation... MOUAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Why am I not surprised.

It's the "random" which make it longer.

It is one in the same. Random does force the inevitable war of 8s, and it is the war of 8s that takes time. Plus, it is also the Hardcore, as you cannot, in wars of 8s in HC, keep attacking and knocking down others troop #s. I never did say it was one thing over the other in my game settings... it is a combination of both (HC and Random).

I will contend also that it is not Conquor vs Full map at all that makes the difference in game length. It is map size, HC vs Att, and Random vs Manul or Border. Based on my almost 2k games played... about evenly over Conquer and Full Map, I make this judgement.

[Darkas]

So, we both agree that random is the #1 factor of longestness, because it forced the "inevitable war of 8", which is for me the boringest thing ever in VW.

But that's not my point, my point is that full map game with all other settings the same are really shorter than conquer map, and give on average far more xp/shard per minute, and ever further more for lower rank player (aka. player which doesn't finish 1-2-3).

Your "2k" game long experience is biased by the fact that you did not play an equal amount of all possible combinations. You did a lot of full map/HC/random and a lot of conquer/attrition/manual, I'd guess, and because of the "random" the first ones are probably longer (I'm even not sure of that) that the second ones, so you intuitively feel that fullmap/conquer length ratio is maybe near 1, aka doesn't change a lot the length of the games, but it does.

[techgump]

So, we both agree that random is the #1 factor of longestness

No. I did not mean that and do not agree. I must correct myself in also stating random will force 8s. That is not the case... it is HC alone will force the battle of 8s, as no one wants to get caught with their pants down (having a 7 vs an 8). You should know this, or would if you tried playing other modes more often before making such claims. With random, you can still manage without 8s... but in HC, you cannot. It is therefore not Random that creates the 8s scenario, but rather HC.

my point is that full map game with all other settings the same are really shorter than conquer map

Hence then, based on my previous point, it is not either full map or conquor that makes it shorter or longer... it is HC... with the battle of 8s, that makes it the longest.
This is a deliberate provocation back at cha... MOUAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

Your "2k" game long experience is biased by the fact that you did not play an equal amount of all possible combinations.

This is true, but I have played them all, several times, and based of the volume and variation (which you as a math man should appreciate), am probably a better judge of this (but I have been known to be wrong). Either way, I appreciate you sharing Darkas.