People with their turn before you

[Gerberos]

Can you beat them? I feel like the people that have their turn before you will always win unless you team up with someone.

Discuss.

[Lopdo]

what mode? in full map, first player have huge advantage, that's why I don't play it in other modes it isn't that big issue imho

[Gerberos]

Conquer, Attration. The players before you will always have more units than you resulting in you not being able to attack them and them being able to just roll over you.

[Lopdo]

They will have more unit after their turn ends so they could not roll over you (as you had same amount of troops as he did when his turn started), it is true you might not be able to attack him, but that usually isn't problem as you can attack somewhere else. Also player order is randomized, so it should even out over few more games

[BadFurDay]

FTA (first turn advantage) is a staple of turn based games.

It is basically impossible to have a turn based game without a first turn advantage, unless units are pre-placed. There are ways to minimize it, but no way to get rid of it, ever.

Even chess features a rather strong FTA, white gets to decide of the opening move, which is a very big deal given how much controlling the center of the board matters at high level. That's why players usually play it best of X and switch colors after each game.

[Gerberos]

What if everyone got their reinforcements after the last player ends his turn, wouldn't this add more balance to the game?

[Lopdo]

no, that would give big advantage to last player, imagine second turn, you have 2 unit in you region, guy next to you expanded so he has on both regions only one army, you can easily attack him, this gets only worse as game progresses

[Robomajor]

Could we make a game mode that randomizes everyone's turns each round?

P.S. Sorry I have been gone for the last couple days (not that you have noticed), our Internet was having problems and wouldn't let us onto it. I was so BORED!

[Gerberos]

no, that would give big advantage to last player, imagine second turn, you have 2 unit in you region, guy next to you expanded so he has on both regions only one army, you can easily attack him, this gets only worse as game progresses

Ooo you're right. :/

Could we make a game mode that randomizes everyone's turns each round?

P.S. Sorry I have been gone for the last couple days (not that you have noticed), our Internet was having problems and wouldn't let us onto it. I was so BORED!

That way some would have more turns than others. :/

[BadFurDay]

Could we make a game mode that randomizes everyone's turns each round?

It does not solve FTA, just transfers it to someone else every turn.

One could that way get an unfair advantage of playing two turns in a row.

What if everyone got their reinforcements after the last player ends his turn, wouldn't this add more balance to the game?

It would only transform the FTA in an LTA (last turn advantage).


Game theory is an important part of mathematics. It has been studied by many people as a genuine topic, not as just a way to have fun with games. There is no way to solve FTA in turn based games, unless the context of the games has such tools to allow it (such as, for example, the way cities work in Advance Wars). FTA cannot be solved in chess. It cannot be solved in checkers. It probably cannot be solved in vortex wars either, only somewhat countered by having wider maps / maps with less chokepoints.

The solution used in chess is to ensure that, whatever the tournament format, each players gets as close as possible from 50% games as white and 50% games as black. The same happens in vortex wars thanks to player randomization. When you're last, too bad. Perhaps you'll be first next game. It is very possible to win as the last player, just like it is very possible to lose as the first one, so go for it, and better luck next game!